Rudy carraso recently asked this question on his blog. is the emerging church racist? his answer was no i want to add a qualifier to the question is the emerging church intentionally racist? my answer. no it is not intentionally racist but I think it is racist. by placing racial reconciliation and the evil of racial oppression in our world, so far down the totem pole of things that are important to address the emerging church is operating out of the same place of power and control that the moderns do.
so often it seems the emergent conversation has just becomes another in the latest philosophical and intellectual discussions driven and led by white males with very little perspective or interest in the perspective of people of color.
this makes me sad because there is so much of the emerging church that i resonate with and I think is shared by many people of color. but somewhere along the line all the “openness” of the emerging church folks seems to have degraded into the openness to the issues those who are driving the conversation think is important. as one commenter said over at carraso’ urban onramps “the reconciliation and ethnic diversity conversation can be too energy-consuming and overwhelming”
but if walking the talk and living more like Jesus is what the emerging church is all about; how can we not put our energy into the things like racial reconciliation, poverty and diversity that seems so important to Jesus. is that just a convenient excuse. was Jesus more concerned about worship style than freeing the captive and releasing the oppressed?
well there i got this off my chest. now its your turn holler back!
Tags: church folks, diversity, emergent, emergent_church, emergent_village, emerging church, ethnic diversity, intellectual discussions, moderns, people of color, racial oppression, racial reconciliation, racial_reconciliation, racism, urban onramps, worship style
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man, you know i think this is completely true. it makes me crazy and there’s no obvious way to fix other than telling the truth and trying to walk differently myself. thanks for being honest.
[...] IN EMERGENT LOUNGEMODERATED BY rob_auld, wasamson, sojourner FORUMS LISTING EMERGENT VILLAGE EMERGENT LOUNGE Theology Overload TOTAL FORUM POSTS: 223,582 GOTO FORUM… - GENERAL MESSAGE BOARD - QUESTIONS & COMMENTS - GENERAL SITE ANNOUNCEMENTS - CULTURE DISCUSSION - POLITICAL DISCUSSION - FAITH DISCUSSION - SPIRITUAL FORMATION DISCUSSION - MINISTRY DISCUSSION - POSTMODERNISM & THE CHURCH - MAKING SENSE OF CHURCH - EMERGENT LOUNGE - CHURCH PLANTING DISCUSSION - SOULARIZE 2005 - SOULARIZE QUESTIONS & SUPPORT - roadFORKS TOPIC: Theology OverloadPAGES: [1] 2 Listing 1 to 10 of 15 TotalNext 10 Replies » sacrednarrativeGuestTotal Posts: 39 Theology OverloadThursday August 25, 2005 11:45 AMI’m a recent addition to this whole online conversation thing. It’s great! What an inspiration know that so many are seeking the Kingdom in terrific new/old innovative/ancient ways. But, I think the most important challenge for me as a journeyer in to discover how my theology is lived out and played out in a risky, perhaps even dangerous way. To that end… Why is it that there are dozens of posts on the adventure of theology but only 5 on the topic of diversity? Diversity is such a brainlessly measurable quality. You either are seeing it in your church…or you aren’t. (and just because you think you are trying doesn’t make the scale) The best test for this of course is how you are seen by those who you would seek to reach. One pagan friend of mine said when I asked him if he was interested in remaining a member of the church where his father is an elder and where he once led and preached in the youth ministry, “My girlfriend really feels uncomfortable there. There’s no one with tattoos, and..she voted for Kerry and She isn’t all that comfortable with the whole one religion thing. Oh and besides, there aren’t any blacks, mexicans, or asians…so the rest of my friends wouldn’t come either.” Culturally diverse, racially diverse, theologically diverse, economically diverse… Does anyone have any ideas on how to build a community theat is inviting and comfortable to people with different accents or skin color? To quote Richard Dawkins, “The achievements of theologians don’t do anything, don’t affect anything, don’t mean anything.” Help me. With all this adventurous theology, (God forgive me.) I’m beginning to agree…What’s your story?Message #221190lukeiamyourfatherSpecial MemberTotal Posts: 284 RE: Theology OverloadThursday August 25, 2005 6:19 PMQUOTED To quote Richard Dawkins, “The achievements of theologians don’t do anything, don’t affect anything, don’t mean anything.” Help me. With all this adventurous theology, (God forgive me.) I’m beginning to agree… Yeah, I see your point. Discussion can be beneficial and is often necessary, but the problem we face with getting so involved in online conversation is the temptation to just leave in the electronic realm and actually “practice what we preach” (forgive the cliche). In my mind, it seems like an issue of balance – in this case involving balance between theological discussion/reflection and living out our theology in the realm of everyday life. If we spend too much time in discussion and do little to act on what we learn and discuss, like you said, what good are we doing? At the same time, if all we’re doing is doing and doing and not really reflecting or discussing, perhaps it would be as much of a waste of time as the opposite, or maybe even a step in the wrong direction, as we have seen with so many churches and leaders with that mentality today…Come to The Porcelain Throne… Message #221300 – This was a reply to message #221190postmodernegroLurkerTotal Posts: 6 RE: Theology OverloadThursday August 25, 2005 7:20 PMQUOTED Does anyone have any ideas on how to build a community theat is inviting and comfortable to people with different accents or skin color? sacred, I believe part of the process will be to organize cohorts in such a way as to make the conversation hospitable. One of the things that brought me to Emergent, specifically, was McLaren’s willingness to deal with issues normally dealt with by theologians, pastors, and laypersons in the margins of the dominant culture. I found that to be encouraging. I think it was his thoughts on post-colonialism specifically that caught my attention. You don’t see too many white Evangelicals using that kind of language. He’s not afraid to step outside his cultural-linguistic network and attempt to speak the language of “others”. So part of being a cohort is doing “critical geography”. A term I am stealing from novelist Toni Morrision. She describes “critical geography” as: “I want to draw a map, so to speak, of a critical geography and use that map to open as much space for discovery, intellectual adventure, and close exploration as did the original charting of the New wold- without the mandate for conquest.”- From Playing in the Dark p. 3 Emergent cohort are spaces where we can do critical geography to discover, adventure, and explore together, in Spirit-led friendships, ways to give witness to Christ’s cross and resurrection.Message #221315 – This was a reply to message #221190JasperAsshatTotal Posts: 1274 RE: Theology OverloadFriday August 26, 2005 5:39 AMQUOTED So part of being a cohort is doing “critical geography”. This concept is what first popped into my thinking as soon as I read Sacred’s post. It is about geography and space, a certain Spirit Led intentionality as we go about our days. QUOTED Emergent cohort are spaces where we can do critical geography to discover, adventure, and explore together, in Spirit-led friendships, ways to give witness to Christ’s cross and resurrection. I am am assumimg that the diversity found in the Cohort gatherings is fairly dependent on demographics? JasHow does the doubter know so much about the unknowable?Message #221377 – This was a reply to message #221315postmodernegroLurkerTotal Posts: 6 RE: Theology OverloadFriday August 26, 2005 9:50 AMQUOTED I am am assumimg that the diversity found in the Cohort gatherings is fairly dependent on demographics? Jas, You are correct about demographics. Of course up to this point most, if not all, of the cohorts are in urban centers. I believe the word simply needs to get out about Emergent in places where people may not come into contact with the emerging church. I found about Emergent and the emergent church conversation by happenstance…I was looking for online lectures of Stanley Hauerwas and came across Brian McLaren. AntMessage #221454 – This was a reply to message #221377ngilmourForums ManiacTotal Posts: 2844 RE: Theology OverloadSaturday August 27, 2005 7:20 AMQUOTED Why is it that there are dozens of posts on the adventure of theology but only 5 on the topic of diversity? Diversity is such a brainlessly measurable quality. Probably because it’s a brainlessly measurable quality… no need to post more than five times! “He was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, but if you were not, not.” –Gertrude Stein on Ezra Pound, various Oozers on Nate? My Little Blog EICOMessage #221803 – This was a reply to message #221190ngilmourForums ManiacTotal Posts: 2844 RE: Theology OverloadSaturday August 27, 2005 11:35 AMQUOTED To quote Richard Dawkins, “The achievements of theologians don’t do anything, don’t affect anything, don’t mean anything.” Would you mind putting Dawkins’s quote in context? Who, in his view, has in fact done something, affected something, meant something?”He was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, but if you were not, not.” –Gertrude Stein on Ezra Pound, various Oozers on Nate? My Little Blog EICOMessage #221847 – This was a reply to message #221190sacrednarrativeGuestTotal Posts: 39 RE: Theology OverloadSaturday August 27, 2005 11:36 PMQUOTED QUOTED To quote Richard Dawkins, “The achievements of theologians don’t do anything, don’t affect anything, don’t mean anything.” Would you mind putting Dawkins’s quote in context? Who, in his view, has in fact done something, affected something, meant something? “IF all the achievements of scientists were wiped out tomorrow, there would be no doctors but witchdoctors, no transport faster than horses, no computers, no printed books, no agriculture beyond subsitance farming. If all the achievements of theologians were wiped out tomorrow, would anyone notice the slightest difference? Even the bad achievements of scientists, the bombs, the sonar-guided whaling vessels work.” (Richard Dawkins, “The Emptiness of Theology” Free Inquiry (Spring 1998)) That’s the previous couple of sentences. I don’t agree, of course, with the plainly antagonistic nature of the quote…but if theology does not result in a diversity of life in our churches, then, I believe we have wasted our theology and it has done no real measurable good. What knowledge of God can come from the working out of what in the end can only be linguistic ineptitudes of analysis of a God that continues to defy our catagorization. Unless of couse those discoveries are effectual toward the change of our community. I have seen the effects of the theologies of the post-modern writers resulting in churches that are shedding a skin of restriction and finding new/old progressive/retro liturgies and ecclesiologies. But, if we are still segregated after 300 years of American Christianity, then we have a glaring hypocrisy that is ferreting out for all to see the weakness of our theology, as least to the observing world. Our theology must “work”. It must result in our working. Oscar Romero’s theology of peace and love for the poor was a theology that worked and resulted in his assassination because he was dangerous. The theology of MLK was poignant enough to begin revolution as was the theology of Luther and Calvin. Our theology of a God who loves diversity must result in diverse churches or…well I hate to express the “or”… or yuck and If it is so brainlessly measurable, then why are we satisfied to continue discussing various ecclesiology when we haven’t solved this issue. How, infact, can we truly profess to promulgate investigative theological dialogue with the knowledge that a part of the perspective of God is missing from our communites. Our theologies are bound to be incomplete if our communities our incomplete. I could be wrong of course…What’s your story?Message #221932 – This was a reply to message #221847ngilmourForums ManiacTotal Posts: 2844 RE: Theology OverloadSunday August 28, 2005 4:11 AMQUOTED If it is so brainlessly measurable, then why are we satisfied to continue discussing various ecclesiology when we haven’t solved this issue. How, infact, can we truly profess to promulgate investigative theological dialogue with the knowledge that a part of the perspective of God is missing from our communites. Our theologies are bound to be incomplete if our communities our incomplete. I could be wrong of course… Nah… I was just trying to joke about the pair of sentences to which I responded. With one you complained that nobody’s posting about diversity, then with the next you called diversity “brainlessly measurable.” It was an attempt at a joke by an English teacher who’s graded too many papers–nothing more. QUOTED That’s the previous couple of sentences. I don’t agree, of course, with the plainly antagonistic nature of the quote…but if theology does not result in a diversity of life in our churches, then, I believe we have wasted our theology and it has done no real measurable good. Just wanted to note the antagonistic spirit and the complete lack of historical perspective and the poisonous pragmatism that the quote exhibits–I don’t disagree with your point about diversity, but I hardly think that Dick Dawkins ought to be our champion in discussions about following Jesus. I thought I’d read that little rant before, and now that you’ve posted the context, I remember it quite clearly.”He was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, but if you were not, not.” –Gertrude Stein on Ezra Pound, various Oozers on Nate? My Little Blog EICOMessage #221936 – This was a reply to message #221932mosaiclifeLurkerTotal Posts: 10 RE: Theology OverloadMonday August 29, 2005 6:41 AMQUOTED Our theology must “work”. It must result in our working. Oscar Romero’s theology of peace and love for the poor was a theology that worked and resulted in his assassination because he was dangerous. The theology of MLK was poignant enough to begin revolution as was the theology of Luther and Calvin. Sacred, I truly agree with you the discussion of theology and ecclesiology apart from praxis seem to be a distraction from application of theology to the real life issues which I hoped the emerging conversation would speak. In the cohort I belong to (being the only regular person of color) I am constantly asking folks how come the only theological framework we draw on is European(NT Wright)? Why not add the liberation theologians from Latin American and the African American theologians like Howard Thurman (who preceded Dr. King)? I think there is just greater comfort with the retro stuff and theology talk. Now I am not suggesting that that needs to go away but I think you are right that it feels out of balance, and that has raised all kind of questions like this conversation last September. And lead to he criticism of people like DA Carson who don’t see the emerging church standing for anything. Is the emerging church …? QUOTED but if theology does not result in a diversity of life in our churches, then, I believe we have wasted our theology and it has done no real measurable good. QUOTED Our theology of a God who loves diversity must result in diverse churches I don’t think what you say here is a part of the DNA of many people in the emerging church conversation. I believe it is for Brian McLaren personally, but the value hasn’t trickled down or passed by osmosis to most of the other conversations I’m observing. I fear this will be the fatal flaw of the current incarnation of the emerging church. Lots of talk but no lasting impact.Message #222055 – This was a reply to message #221932 Listing 1 to 10 of 15 TotalNext 10 Replies »PAGES: [1] 2 GOTO FORUM… - GENERAL MESSAGE BOARD - QUESTIONS & COMMENTS - GENERAL SITE ANNOUNCEMENTS - CULTURE DISCUSSION - POLITICAL DISCUSSION - FAITH DISCUSSION - SPIRITUAL FORMATION DISCUSSION - MINISTRY DISCUSSION - POSTMODERNISM & THE CHURCH - MAKING SENSE OF CHURCH - EMERGENT LOUNGE - CHURCH PLANTING DISCUSSION - SOULARIZE 2005 - SOULARIZE QUESTIONS & SUPPORT - roadFORKS [...]