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	<title>post religious christian &#187; d a carson</title>
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		<title>Following Jesus into leadership</title>
		<link>http://www.postreligiouschristian.com/2005/08/20/following-jesus-into-leadership/</link>
		<comments>http://www.postreligiouschristian.com/2005/08/20/following-jesus-into-leadership/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Andre Daley</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[emerging church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[brewin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church leadership]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[servant leaders]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Was Jesus a pastor or a leader maybe both or neither? The more I hear the rationale of some in the emerging conversation for the flat model of leadership the less convinced I am that the conviction in based on &#8230; <a href="http://www.postreligiouschristian.com/2005/08/20/following-jesus-into-leadership/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was Jesus a pastor or a leader maybe both or neither?</p>
<p>The more I hear the rationale of some in the emerging conversation for the <a href="http://www.myfourwalls.net/?p=323" target="_blank">flat model of leadership</a> the less convinced I am that the conviction in based on following Jesus patterns. It seems more like a sixties retro headless democracy that I think eventually caused the church to lose its way and fall into the hands of the modernists thinkers.</p>
<p>Having a leader is not just about wanting to know who is in charge that is just a simplification of a very complex and layered issue. God has always raised up leaders for his people and to deny that or reject it (The shaping of things to come, not withstanding) I think&nbsp;is misguided.</p>
<p>This is one of the things that frustrates me the most about some emergent thinkers.&nbsp;More credence is put in follow the latest intellectual&nbsp;thought than following Jesus&#8217; which is what we claim to value so highly in the emerging church. It&#8217;s no wonder that D.A. Carson and others are beating us over the head as not standing for anything biblical and abandoning the core faith. </p>
<p>Carson et al&nbsp;are wrong but we are giving them tons of ammunition by just reacting at the other extreme to all the abuses of the modern church, leadership being chief among them. Jesus was open , he was inviting, but he lead. He showed his followers how to live and he gave instructions for us to follow those patterns.</p>
<p>As Kester Brewin says in the <a href="http://thecomplexchrist.com/" target="_blank">Complex Christ</a> we are trying to mount a revolution when what we need is an evolution. I think we need to get over our fear of strong leaders and realize that strong servant leaders are an asset not a liability.&nbsp; We need leaders, flawed imperfect, servant leaders. Not managers, not tyrants, not dictators, not CEOs&nbsp;and not whatever wimps! Leaders! We need leaders willing to follow Jesus at all costs into mission; To serve people and sacrifice for them as Jesus for us. </p>
<p>(sidebar: I think this i one reason why some people of color don&#8217;t get the whole emerging church thing. The Afro Christian church values healthy leaders and those leaders play a very different role than they do in most anglo settings)</p>
<p>The flat model thing just feels like such a cope out for not laying it all on the line if God has given a mission to lead. think of all the people responsible for keeping the faith going that God called to lead what if they said I&#8217;m really more comfortable with a flat model because that is what it say in the shaping things to come.</p>
<p>Well I got that off my chest!</p>


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<p class='technorati-tags'>Technorati Tags: <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/brewin' rel='tag' target='_self'>brewin</a>, <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/church+leadership' rel='tag' target='_self'>church leadership</a>, <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/church_leadership' rel='tag' target='_self'>church_leadership</a>, <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/core+faith' rel='tag' target='_self'>core faith</a>, <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/credence' rel='tag' target='_self'>credence</a>, <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/d+a+carson' rel='tag' target='_self'>d a carson</a>, <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/emerging+church' rel='tag' target='_self'>emerging church</a>, <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/flat+model' rel='tag' target='_self'>flat model</a>, <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/modernists' rel='tag' target='_self'>modernists</a>, <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/people+of+color' rel='tag' target='_self'>people of color</a>, <a class='technorati-link' href='http://technorati.com/tag/servant+leaders' rel='tag' target='_self'>servant leaders</a></p>

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		<title>D. A. won&#8217;t converse with Pagitt</title>
		<link>http://www.postreligiouschristian.com/2005/08/09/d-a-wont-converse-with-pagitt/</link>
		<comments>http://www.postreligiouschristian.com/2005/08/09/d-a-wont-converse-with-pagitt/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Andre Daley</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[emerging church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beco]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andredaley.com/2005/08/09/d-a-wont-converse-with-pagitt/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seminary professor&#160;&#38; author D.A. Carson who among others has leveled some scathing criticisms of the emerging church was apparently invited to talk with Doug Paigitt of Solomon&#8217;s Porch (an emerging church recently featured on the PBS Religion and Ethics Weekly &#8230; <a href="http://www.postreligiouschristian.com/2005/08/09/d-a-wont-converse-with-pagitt/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seminary professor&nbsp;&amp; author <a target="_blank" href="http://www.tiu.edu/people/faculty/carson.htm">D.A. Carson</a> who among others has leveled some scathing criticisms of the emerging church was apparently invited to talk with Doug Paigitt of <a target="_blank" href="http://www.solomonsporch.com/">Solomon&#8217;s Porch</a> (an emerging church recently featured on the PBS Religion and Ethics Weekly coverage of the emerging church ) about his perception of the emerging conversation. Brewin at <a target="_blank" href="http://thecomplexchrist.typepad.com/the_complex_christ/2005/08/carson_wont_be_.html">complex Christ</a>&nbsp;says he&#8217;s been told that Carson doesn&#8217;t want to talk with Paigitt or other folks in the emergent conversation. If that is true then, how does DA expect to become conversant with the emerging church as the title of his latest book suggests? Ah the ironies of modern thinking a one way conversation. </p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Other thoughts on DA Carson&#8217;s book</p>
<p><a href="http://thebolgblog.typepad.com/thebolgblog/2005/05/d_a_carson_beco.html">http://thebolgblog.typepad.com/thebolgblog/2005/05/d_a_carson_beco.html</a></p>


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		<title>Spoiled Brats: Reconciling the PD and EC movements.</title>
		<link>http://www.postreligiouschristian.com/2005/07/07/spoiled-brats-reconciling-the-pd-and-ec-movements/</link>
		<comments>http://www.postreligiouschristian.com/2005/07/07/spoiled-brats-reconciling-the-pd-and-ec-movements/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Andre Daley</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[emerging church]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andredaley.com/2005/07/07/spoiled-brats-reconciling-the-pd-and-ec-movements/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kevin over at Sakamuyo Christian Fellowship has written an interesting article about tension or is it conflict between the emerging church and purpose driven folks. Spoiled Brats: Reconciling the PD and EC movements. I have to say I an really &#8230; <a href="http://www.postreligiouschristian.com/2005/07/07/spoiled-brats-reconciling-the-pd-and-ec-movements/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin over at Sakamuyo Christian Fellowship has written an interesting article about tension or is it conflict between the emerging church and purpose driven folks.</p>
<p><a href="http://sakamuyo.net/community/index.php/topic,272.msg1663.html#msg1663">Spoiled Brats: Reconciling the PD and EC movements.</a> </p>
<p>I have to say I an really surprised by some the negativity toward the emerging church being generated by PDC folks on the pastors.com <a href="http://forums2.pastors.com/forum/categories.cfm?catid=94&#038;entercat=y" target="_blank">forums</a>. It is mostly based around the D. A. Carson criticisms.</p>
<p>These approaches don&#8217;t have to be mutually exclusive. They can be,&nbsp;if the people on either side see their approach as the ultimate way.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been questioned by one friend who can&#8217;t understand why we would use anything related to PDC like 40 days of purpose, &quot;its&nbsp;too modern, programmatic&nbsp;and packaged&quot;.</p>
<p>My response you don&#8217;t have to present&nbsp;it that way 40 days has seemed into the culture way beyond Saddleback and people are connecting with God through it (ex the Atlanta hostage and murderer suspect) to ignore that is just being short sighted. There are some good things that have been before the emerging church.</p>
<p>So thanks Kevin for article.</p>
<p>Andre</p>


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